As President Trump celebrated his 500th day in office Monday, many legal experts warned that the country could soon face a constitutional crisis as the president continues to attack special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation. On Monday, Trump tweeted, “The appointment of the Special Counsel is totally UNCONSTITUTIONAL!” He also tweeted, “As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself.” Over the weekend, The New York Times published a 20-page confidential letter written by Trump’s lawyers to special counsel Robert Mueller, in which his lawyers claim Trump is above the law and thus cannot have illegally obstructed the Mueller investigation. Trump’s attorneys also claim the Constitution gives the president power to terminate the Mueller probe. We speak to Philadelphia Daily News columnist Will Bunch in Philadelphia. His latest column is headlined “The week Trump went full dictator and no one tried to stop him.”
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Monday
marked President Trump’s 500th day in office, and many legal experts warn the
country could soon face a constitutional crisis as the president continues to
attack special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation. On Monday, Trump
tweeted, quote, “The appointment of the Special Counsel is totally UNCONSTITUTIONAL!”
He also tweeted, “As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the
absolute right to PARDON myself.”
Later on Monday, NBC’s White House reporter Peter Alexander questioned the
White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
PETER ALEXANDER: Sarah,
let me ask you, if I can: Does the president believe that he is above the law?
PRESS SECRETARY SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS: Certainly
not. The president hasn’t done anything wrong.
PETER ALEXANDER: The
question isn’t if he’s done anything wrong. I guess the question is: Does the
president believe the Framers envisioned a system where the president can
pardon himself, where the president could be above the law?
PRESS SECRETARY SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS: Certainly,
the Constitution very clearly lays out the law. And, once again, the president
hasn’t done anything wrong, and we feel very comfortable in that front.
PETER ALEXANDER: I
know, but you just, a moment ago, said it’s not—it’s not that clear. So, I
guess, simply put: Does the president believe he is above the law?
PRESS SECRETARY SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS: Certainly,
no one is above the law.
AMY GOODMAN: Over
the weekend, The New York Times published a 20-page
confidential letter written
by Trump’s lawyers to special counsel Robert Mueller, in which his lawyers
claim Trump is above the law and thus cannot have illegally obstructed the
Mueller investigation. In the January 29 letter, they claim, quote, “It remains
our position that the President’s actions here, by virtue of his position as
the chief law enforcement officer, could neither constitutionally nor legally
constitute obstruction because that would amount to him obstructing himself,
and that he could, if he wished, terminate the inquiry, or even exercise his
power to pardon if he so desired.” Trump’s attorneys also claim the
Constitution gives the president power to terminate the Mueller probe.
We go now to Philadelphia, where we’re
joined by Will Bunch, longtime columnist for the Philadelphia
Daily News. Latest column is
headlined “The week Trump went full dictator and no one tried tried to stop
him.”
Respond to these latest developments and
comments of both President Trump, reinforcing this letter that The
New York Times got a hold of and released this weekend.
WILL BUNCH: Yeah.
And hi, Amy. Hi, Juan. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Yeah, you know, I wrote that column over
the weekend, before this extraordinary tweet from President Trump yesterday in
which he claimed that he has the ability to pardon himself. You know, you
mentioned it’s been 500 days of President Trump. And it’s day by day we’ve seen
him slowly eroding democratic norms, the rule of law, rules, you know. And when
he does that, step by step, he not only erodes our democracy, but he’s taking
us on a path from a presidency to some kind of dictatorship, where he’s
basically, like you said, declaring—like he said, declaring himself above the
law. I mean, the letter, the 20-page letter from his lawyers to Robert Mueller,
was stunning in the claims that he can shut down the investigation, that he can
fire anybody in the Justice Department who’s investigating him, at will, and
that he has the right to pardon anybody—Michael Flynn, Michael Cohen and
himself, perhaps, although that theory is yet to be tested. So, this is clearly
a dangerous time for democracy. And again, we’ve seen it just erode step by
step, you know, the fact that he gets away with telling an average of 30 lies a
day to the American people and goes unchallenged on that, the—you know, in so
many ways.
And, you know, the flip side of that is
the Founders always thought that we’d be protected against that, because
Congress, the courts, our institutions, the media would step in if somebody was
that abusive to our fundamental democracy, and take action. But we have a
Congress that’s totally cowed. You know, the Republicans have completely thrown
in with Trump, and the Democrats haven’t really adopted an aggressive strategy
on how to counter this. The media is debating whether to call a lie a lie. And
he is really strengthening this hold over our reality in ways that are very
dangerous.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And,
Will, talking about calling a lie a lie, for months and months President Trump
continued to say that he was ready to talk to the special prosecutor, and he
was looking forward to it. And yet, here, this letter that the Times issued,
released, shows that back in January they were already claiming that they
didn’t want—that he doesn’t want to talk to Mueller, that they believe that
Mueller has all the information he needs and that the president basically
doesn’t have the time. It was stunning that yet he has continued to say that
he’s willing to talk to the special prosecutor.
WILL BUNCH: Right,
it is stunning, Juan. And, of course, something else emerged in that letter,
too, which is the fact that the official story line out of the White House
about their initial explanation of this Trump Tower meeting with the Russian
emissaries in 2016, the issue was whether President Trump had been personally
involved in drafting this statement claiming that the meeting was only about
adoptions and nothing else, and, you know, there wasn’t a discussion of dirt
about Hillary Clinton. The White House had initially denied that Trump had made
that—had done that. And now, in their own letter, they admit that Trump did, in
fact, dictate the statement. And, you know, Sarah Sanders was pressed on this
yesterday, and she doesn’t have a good answer.
And this has just been a hallmark of the
Trump administration, you know, just blatant lying. I mean, obviously, Donald
Trump is not the first president to lie. You know, we’ve been through LBJ and
Vietnam and Watergate and all these other things. But in this case, I mean, the
sheer brazenness of it. And, you know, this gets back to the whole issue of
democracy versus dictatorship, because what really makes a dictator is the
ability to redefine reality, right? So, the more that Trump and his aides, like
Sarah Sanders, and his lawyers can come out and just state these blatant
untruths, and he’s still—and you wake up the next day, and nothing has really
changed, you know, the more dangerous our situation becomes.
AMY GOODMAN: You
know, we’ve been doing a lot of reflecting back, 50 years later, on 1968. Now,
this is, well, not quite 50 years, maybe more like 41 years, but it was after
Nixon resigned, the famous interview that he did with David Frost.
DAVID FROST: The
president can decide that it’s in the best interest of the nation, or
something, and do something illegal?
RICHARD NIXON: Well,
when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.
DAVID FROST: By
definition?
RICHARD NIXON: Exactly.
AMY GOODMAN: So,
that was Nixon after he resigned, in 1977. Will Bunch, can you compare Nixon
and Trump?
WILL BUNCH: Yeah,
absolutely. You know, Amy, I came of age during Watergate. I mean, that’s what
kind of made me want to go into journalism as a young man. And one of the lessons,
supposedly, of Watergate was that we proved that no one is above the law,
because Nixon had to resign, he was forced out of office. The truth is, we
obviously never really resolved that question, unfortunately. I mean, first of
all, the muddies were watered when Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon, so, in a way, he
was above the law. He did commit crimes and was not sent to jail or punished
for them. And so you had a situation where, three years later, Nixon, instead
of being in jail, is a free man, and he’s making this claim that when the
president does it, it’s not illegal. I think the vast majority of Americans
totally disagree with that statement, and yet we’ve never really resolved that
question.
And now we have a president who’s
determined to push this to the outer limit. You know, he’s determined to blow
by every tradition, every norm, every rule, and he’s basically challenging us
to say, “What are we going to do about this?” You know, he’s challenging
Congress. He’s challenging the media. He’s challenging the American people.
What are we going to do about it? Are we going to, you know, sit on our couches
and watch this on TV every night? Are we going to take to the streets? What are
we going to do as he gets more and more brazen? And this is really the question
we have to resolve, because if the president can show that he’s above the law,
that just erodes the underpinnings of our democracy in so many ways. You know,
it’s a very risky time.
Please continue this transcript, or to watch the full video interview, please go here: https://www.democracynow.org/2018/6/5/going_full_dictator_trump_claims_he?utm_source=Democracy+Now%21&utm_campaign=69f38f0908-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-69f38f0908-191574905
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